| Author | Comment | ||
|---|---|---|---|
DON1937.parallaxscurioa... |
1889/1900 Short Rifle Question |
Lead | |
|
I have a Swiss rifle with serial number P601. The site which I use to find the mfg. identifies it as a 1889/1900 Short Rifle and Zoll is in the date column.
Can someone give me some history on these rifles? It appears identical to my K11 and is in execellent condition with fewer dents and scratches than my K11.
TIA
Last Edited By: DON1937 05/18/09 09:45:10.
Edited 1 time.
|
|||
Parashooter |
|||
|
A "P." prefix indicates non-military procurement. "Zoll" means "customs" and is apparently taken to indicate procurement for the
customs service. If the "P" is not part of the serial number, it may simply be the "privatization" mark applied when an arm was released
from government ownership, in which case the carbine would be serial 601 of the normal military series. A sharp photo of the serial would let us make a more
positive determination.
Almost all of the 1900 short rifles in military service were recalled and converted to 1911 carbines, receiving new stocks, barrels, sights, magazines, etc. If yours is a P.-series example and is now in K11 configuration, it was most likely returned to the arsenal by the using organization and underwent the same conversion process as the military 1900's. |
|||
DON1937.parallaxscurioa... |
|||
|
Thanks Parashooter. I'm totally inept at posting photos
Corps des gde. fr.
|
|||
Parashooter |
|||
|
OK, the period after the "P" clarifies the serial as "private" (non-military) production and "Corps des gde. fr." means
"Border Guard Corps". This alleviates my uncertainty about the meaning of "Zoll" in the serial lists copied from D.R.d.S., since customs enforcement is one duty of border guards. Thank you.
|
|||
DON1937.parallaxscurioa... |
|||
|
Thanks again Parashooter. I've never seen or even heard of anyone having one of these rifles. Is it something I should really hang on to or are they
fairly common in the US? All of my rifles will be going to my grandson and I'm trying to document an estimate of each rifle's value so he'll have
something to go on if he ever decides to sell them. Thanks for all your help.
|
|||
Parashooter |
|||
|
The private series 1900's, converted to K11 (sometimes called "00/11"), are neither common nor highly valued - since the only effective
difference between them and the common military series is the serial number. Only the most desperate of minutiae-obsessed collectors will pay much extra for an
arm with an uncommon serial that is otherwise identical to the most common example. There are exceptions for unusual serials with obvious interest to even
casual observers - like "1", "50000", "7777", etc., but in general any time we need a reference table to show someone a serial is
uncommon there is little added value.
|
|||
DON1937.parallaxscurioa... |
|||
|
Thanks again Parashooter. |
|||
jd46561 |
|||
|
Hey Don, ya got any picts of it?
|
|||
eglib |
Zoll Karabiner | ||
|
I'm just saying that to drive the price up.
I do know that the Zoll/Corps de Gardes Frontiers/Border Guards have a uniform similar to that of the Army. They are divided into zones, designated by a
Roman numeral on the uniform, so your rifle served in the French-speaking Arrondissement V (Zone 5) near Lausanne. I have one of the Zoll uniform kepis at
home. Maybe we can go to Swiss shoots and collect Customs Fees? |
|||
DON1937.parallaxscurioa... |
|||
jd46561 wrote: I can take pictures ok but I'm at a loss trying to post them. |
|||
SharpRedOne |
|||
|
Don
Click on images at top of page and create a folder in the window that opens up. You then can click on the folder and click upload images. It will let you browse you computer and select your photos from your picture folder on your computer. Then just click insert images when posting and click on the pic you want to insert. It's not that hard as I figured it out. Just needs a little pratice (like shooting). SRO
Just moments after uttering "Why they couldn't hit an elephant at this distance", Major General John Sedgwick was killed by a
round to the cheek by a Confederate sniper at a range of 800yds on May 9 1864.
|
|||
wkato |
|||
|
Well you can't say you haven't seen another one now.
Do me a favor, inspect your stock and see if it shows any signs of being made from the stock of another rifle. Plug in sling bar slot that starts under the butt plate.
Evidence of the barrel band spring clip be moved down. The two exterior forearm pics have enlays where the old spring clip was located.
Rear lower sling swivel enlayed when when moved to side of butt stock.
Swiss Flu Support Group
Curio and Relics Firearms Forum Swiss Rifles Wes's home for wayward Vett's "Not the victory but the action. Not the goal but the game. In the deed the glory." |
|||
jd46561 |
|||
|
1900 short rifle for comparison...
|
|||
DON1937.parallaxscurioa... |
|||
wkato wrote:I don't see anything on mine that looks like the areas you show. Mine has what looks a few small oval repairs/plugs on top of the handguard near the rear sight but they are unevenly spaced. Mine does have the Swiss cross stamped on the top of the handguard about 2" in front of the rear sight. Have you fired yours yet?. |
|||