Need some help from the diopter gurus!

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Bayani	Need some help from the diopter gurus!	Lead	[-]
Posts: 521 (08/18/08 21:33:55) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Tags : None I recently acquired a W+F diopter set and am not having any luck getting it sighted in. With the witness marks centered vertically and horizontally, my shots are landing WAY high and to the right. I have had to nearly bottom-out the elevation and take the windage almost all the way to the left just to touch a 10-inch target at 100 yards. I have tried it on two different K31s just on the chance it was a rifle problem, but it didn't make any difference. Is there some arcane bit of knowledge that I'm lacking? I just can't figure out what's going on. The sight APPEARS to be centered on the receiver, and there are no obvious signs of damage to the unit. Has this ever happened to anyone else? I've had a St. Marie diopter set for a few years, and NEVER had any trouble getting on target with it. Bayani C Trp 1/2ACR Bayreuth, FRG '84-'85 NRA Endowment Member FFL 03
HunzikerCA		#1	[-]
Posts: 201 (08/18/08 23:10:42) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Hi Bayani. I have 2 W+F diopters and I have the same trouble with some of my 3 rifles, but not all. I haven't figured out if it's the way I'm clamping on the diopter, if perhaps the receiver surface is higher on some of the rifles, or a combination of both. At 100 yds I'm usually able to crank one diopter down, as you described, and just barely get rounds centered on the bull. The other diopter consistently places rounds about 12" above the bull. I've competed in a 200 yd match with a diopter and did quite well. However, I was at the same range just a couple weeks ago and all my rounds were well above the black in spite of cranking the diopter as low as it would go. I removed and reinstalled the diopter numerous times without much change in elevation. Both of the diopters work fine in the 300m Swiss matches, although I usually have to drop about 25 clicks from diopter center (about 50cm at 300m) to get centered on the bullseye. I suppose one way to figure this out is to drag all my rifles and gear to the range and shoot a lot of rounds to figure out the problem. But instead, I think I will simply construct a "tall front sight" insert for the front diopter assembly...shouldn't be too difficult. Felix Last Edited By: HunzikerCA 08/18/08 23:15:24. Edited 1 times.
Carlos diaopter		#2	[-]
Posts: 1405 (08/19/08 04:04:18) Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I've yet to see one where the front sight was centered over the barrel. Don't need to be for 300m shooting Witness marks are close to the extremes under 300m. When looking at witness marks from the front, top one should be all the way on the right (""""""/) Side one should look similar (""""""/"), but rotated 90 degrees to the right. Witness marks seem to be about 15 clicks each. Try ring front sight apertures. That will give you more height since they are made for center hold instead of a 6 o'clock hold. A larger diameter target will help too with the post sight. You can place a shim between the front sight ears and the body of the W&F front sight to move slightly to left or right. Move front sight in the opposite direction of where you want the impact to go. Thumb cutouts in the receiver do vary and so does how well centered the barrel is in the receiver. Last Edited By: Carlos diaopter 08/19/08 21:05:48. Edited 7 times.
Guisan		#3	[-]
Posts: 10659 (08/19/08 04:32:12) Contributing Member Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	There should be a small support notch down the diopter body, is it still there and does it touch the receiver when attached to the rifle, does it look like someone used a file on it ? What also could cause it is that in the past the rifle has fallen over with the diopter attached, the arm may have been bend and forced back. Guisan. Fight to your last cartridge, then fight with your bayonets. No surrender. Fight to the death. Gen. Henri Guisan, Switzerland, July '40
HunzikerCA		#4	[-]
Posts: 202 (08/19/08 10:13:06) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	I don't know about Bayani but in my case the small support leg touches the receiver. If someone had filed it down it would actuallly help, since lowering the rear sight brings the rounds down.
Carlos diaopter		#5	[-]
Posts: 1406 (08/19/08 15:01:18) Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	This one is sighted in at 200yds and still has 28 clicks before bottoming out. Can you move yours down by press the iris down by hand? If not, try removing the iris and backplate, reinsert the iris and see how much more travel you might have without the backplate. You'll see this with the backplate off
Bayani		#6	[-]
Posts: 522 (08/19/08 20:59:44) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Thanks for all the ideas. Carlos, I think I will try shimming the front sight as you suggested. My reason for sighting at 100 yards is to ensure that I'll at least be on the paper at 300m. Guisan, yes, my diopter still has the "leg" on the bottom and it IS in contact with the receiver. I had thought of taking a small amount of metal off of that, but I hate to "fit it to one rifle, when I might want to use it on another some day. I can live with shooting high, but as far off to the right as I was, I think that at 300m, I'd be hitting the next target instead of my own! Whether the diopter is tweaked a little, I can't tell. As I said, there are no obvious signs of damage (for instance on the knobs), and everything "looks" square, but it is possible. Bayani C Trp 1/2ACR Bayreuth, FRG '84-'85 NRA Endowment Member FFL 03
Carlos diaopter		#7	[-]
Posts: 1407 (08/19/08 21:13:03) Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	An easy way to get "on Paper" if you're really off the target, is to aim at the corners of the target until a hit is made. Once that hit is made, it's a simple matter to sight in. At 300m your witness marks should be a little closer to center. Last Edited By: Carlos diaopter 08/19/08 21:31:09. Edited 2 times.
CDR Xfire		#8	[-]
Posts: 191 (08/20/08 05:53:27) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Maybe I'm just lucky. I have two complete W+F sets, and an orphan W+F globe sight that I use with the Anschutz backsight on the .22. I haven't noticed any of the front sights being offset to any noticeable degree, and the zero's on the rear sights are not far off from the mechanical zero. There are minor differences between rifles of course. One thing I have noticed ... if the "issue" front sight is significantly off center in the base, it can be distracting for me when using the globe front sight. It gives the optical illusion that the globe is offset, when it is the issue blade underneath the globe. For a guy that had to shoot with a post for so many years, it could sometimes be distracing enough that I would try to center the blade in the rear aperture instead of the globe! I "solved" that issue when I bought the Wyss front globe from Frank ... you have to remove the issue blade to attach it, which can be a PITA, but is only a minor inconvenience if you have The Monster; the ten-pound armory front sight installer/adjuster. It's always a good idea to boresight before live firing, and fire the intial shots at 50 yards if you are uncertain of your zero. Resp'y, Bob S. The Shootist formerly (and still!) known as Bob S. USN Distinguished Marksman No. O-067
Buerki	Trick for getting on paper using W+F diopter	#9	[-]
Posts: 34 (08/20/08 20:27:55) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	There's a pretty easy trick for getting on paper at 300m with the W+F sights. Install the sights and then set the integrated battle rear sight for 1000m. Then align the windage on the rear diopter so that the post on the diopter lines up with the integrated post on the K31. Then adjust elevation so there is a slight half-moon which appears as the rear leaf lines up with the bottom of the diopter. There's a nice picture of this in the W+F manual if someone could scan it and post a picture. Lower the rear leaf and you're ready to shoot. This method has worked for me quite well in the past.
p7crow	other front sight options...	#10	[-]
Posts: 142 (08/28/08 18:14:13) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Have had the same problem, this is great info!!! Though I was sold a bad set, THANK YOU for the Great News!!! Also to note, the Lyman front target sight set# 17A will fit into the W+F front site nicely. Its cheap and non-permanent, may also help withthe issue. I have not tried all the inserts yet (8 per set) but may help. For what its worth.
Carlos diaopter		#11	[-]
Posts: 1424 (08/29/08 20:21:37) Moderator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Buerki wrote: There's a pretty easy trick for getting on paper at 300m with the W+F sights. Install the sights and then set the integrated battle rear sight for 1000m. Then align the windage on the rear diopter so that the post on the diopter lines up with the integrated post on the K31. Then adjust elevation so there is a slight half-moon which appears as the rear leaf lines up with the bottom of the diopter. There's a nice picture of this in the W+F manual if someone could scan it and post a picture. Lower the rear leaf and you're ready to shoot. This method has worked for me quite well in the past. Here it is Last Edited By: Carlos diaopter 08/29/08 20:24:05. Edited 1 times.
Buerki		#12	[-]
Posts: 37 (08/29/08 22:25:06) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	That's it! Thanks Carlos

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